Paul Pangaro has been designing interactions for conversation, both human-machine and human-human, for over thirty years. He earned a PhD with Gordon Pask in Conversation Theory in the Cybernetics Department at Brunel University (UK), and collaborated with Pask on educational technology for over a decade. Pangaro has had a distinguished career as an entrepreneur, researcher, professor, and consultant, lecturing and publishing on “design for conversation" and “design as conversation.” In 2018 he created a full-scale replica of Pask’s Colloquy of Mobiles with TJ McLeish as master fabricator. In 2019 Pangaro became Professor of the Practice in the Human-Computer Interaction Institute at Carnegie Mellon University where he is designing a “Turning Test”, a machine that judges if a conversation is intelligent. He has formed the non-profit Cybernetic Media to help preserve and extend the rich legacy of cybernetics.